The Linux community and its (future) problem
I just want to drop a line about what I believe to be the future biggest problems of the Linux community:
- people who believe to have a clue but don’t (and who will misguide people in the process)
Why is that?
In the past month, I have seen more and more people flooding the Linux help community, due to an
increased interest in Linux. Like in Windows, those people presume, they know how Linux works and how to fix certain problems, as they have successfully
installed it, and as they have solved some specific problems. However, they still have no idea about
what is really going on “under the hood”.
Quite often, those people are quick to respond, only trying to propagate Linux in the world as an
usable system. As they are so quick to respond they will mostly ask GUI based questions which
will never reveal the real problem, but only cope with things they know and are aware of. In the end,
the problem is normally not solved to satisfaction as it will focus on things those users are aware of
(e.g. “This worked for me: install the vendors GPU driver”).
This itself, that new users are not really being helped anymore, due to an overload of bad supporters
is not what is the real problem. Those people who are not helped will eventually reinstall Windows,
which is fine, as I believe a OS should not be used due to believes, but to usefulness to the user.
However, for the people who know Linux ”under the hood”, the ones driving the community,
coding, building wiki pages or factoids for bots; for those people it is harder and harder to stand a
community of windows users trying to help others with no knowledge and even spreading Linux
while they are awaiting from Linux the functionality (good and bad) that Windows has.
I already see the community falling apart, as the knowledgeable people are drowning in the static
noise of un-knowledgeable people. And the community is the one thing that makes Linux what it is.
I hope the Linux community can make the turnaround.
Felix
[...] dollarholler wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptI just want to drop a line about what I believe to be the future biggest problems of the Linux community: [...]
Pingback by The Linux community and its (future) problem — February 3, 2008 @ 3:53 am
even before the rise of linux desktop this is already a problem. those people the developers who were suppose to have a clue back then have sometimes didn’t have a clue too, learning is always dynamic and not static. And amidst the noise, true knowledge always floats.
Comment by ell — February 3, 2008 @ 4:56 am
Sounds like Ubuntu forums
Comment by Mich — February 3, 2008 @ 5:14 am
I agree with you here but I also think the worst offenders are the new ’so-called’ Linux and Open Source consultants. I met one a week ago who, oddly enough, used Windows XP, not Linux or BSD as I PRESUMED he would use.
We are now seeing the dangers of an Ubuntu-era where people really view Linux through a GUI and not command line.
Comment by Kevin Miller — February 3, 2008 @ 5:29 am
I am not talking about Ubuntu here (but I could as well), but about the opensuse IRC channels.
Ubuntu has the advantage of using web forums, opensuse still uses IRC for a good chunk. This really made sense as long as the users had a certain level of interest and “drive”.
But today, users get lost in channels like #opensuse-buildservice and - of course - show attitudes in #suse and the language channels. And this is what is hard to ignore, as I doubt the Ubuntu devs use the same webforum as the people who look for help, the opensuse devs do use the same form and forum of communication as the “dumb” users. And it is hard to ignore those “dumb” users there.
BTW: I removed the moderation for comments, as the legal issuses that existet in Germany when this was implemented have now been cleared.
Comment by fnmueller — February 3, 2008 @ 11:49 am
I don’t really agree with your categorisation of “dumb users”. You are simply talking about level of knowledge.
Nor do I agree about “only GUI based questions” being a problem. It is usually possible to diagnose any problem using only graphical tools, especially on openSUSE. Whether one has to resort to telling the user to enter cryptic commands depends partly on whether one has time to explain a longer chain of GUI steps.
I don’t think the flood of new users into the IRC channels is a problem in and of itself, the problem really is that the more experienced do not tend to be so active in the support channel. In fact the #suse numbers have been declining for a year or so, except for a small boost at 10.3 release. The transient “join, get help, leave” numbers increase, but the regulars decrease.
The less experienced do learn by osmosis if the more experienced are active.
Out of interest what is your nick on irc?
Comment by Benjamin Weber — February 3, 2008 @ 2:03 pm
Hi Benjamin,
I rather not disclose my IRC nick yet, but I will probably change my now existing nick to fnmueller.
I didn’t expect my little article to be digged up, as I am not the first one to describe this problem.
Of course, there is a reason I wrote “dumb” and not dumb: those users are not stupid. I also believe it is clearly visible which kind of user I mean by “dumb” when one reads my blog entry. I mean the users who have a really low level of knowledge, so I mean the same users you seem to be thinking about
I actually believe those “dumb” users (or users with a low level of knowledge as you would describe them in a more precise way) have really good intenions, as the idea of Linux is partly to help others and to share the knowledge you have. It is just, that those users can’t just yet really help and often complicate the helping process by giving plainly wrong hints and because they are often asking the wrong questions and therefore misleading almost everyone who tries to help. It is also almost impossible for one asking for help to sort out the ones who can’t really help and to focus on the ones who can.
So it’s a no win situation.
In my eyes, this is the reason for the deflation in the people with high knowledge. They might still be in the channels, but keep their mouthes shut, as they can’t follow their way through, are ignored (as the “windowish” way seems to be seductive to the one who needs help) or even get yelled at.
Some have already left permanently.
So yes, the less experienced do learn by osmosis if the more experienced are active… But what happens if more and more well experienced users keep their mouth shut or even leave (which I perceive to be the case)?
That _is_ what my fear is, that _is_ what I think the problem is, and that _is_ what I wanted to express. To me, this seems to be the future problem for the Linux community and this is exactly what I wrote about.
So I believe we both have about the same ideas.
I disagree on the GUI part. I don’t see how you can fix most problems effectively via GUI. Often, the GUI is the problem, as the error messages one gets are not conclusive.
From a practical standpoint it is a bad idea to use the GUI for help via IRC (but I believe that is what you think too).
In the end, the GUI problem might not have been well placed by me, as it should be more regarded as a synonym for the less experienced users. Don’t forget that my article is not only about opensuse problems, but I see this problem coming for the entire community (this is why I put (future) in the headline. But yes, my article has been inspired by opensuse.
Comment by fnmueller — February 3, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
“I believe a OS should not be used due to believes, but to usefulness to the user”
You’re right indeed. But for the original post: the problem I think is not just the userbase, but also the marketing hype. People think everyone can use computers; if this had been a problem with Windows (and I think it is) it is even worse with Linux Desktop community. Some of them refuse to understand, the Linux Desktop either will not work, can not be fixed or just afraid to understand that a strong preliminary knowledge is required to “fix things”.
Comment by deadcabbit — February 3, 2008 @ 5:35 pm
I’m not sure. I’m kind of sitting on the fence on this one. New users should be able to ask questions to help solve a problem, but they should also know when they’re in over their head.
For example, I’m by no means experienced, but I know a little. So I usually ask generic questions (such as telling people how to locate a log and asking to see it). When things get a little more specific (in an area I’m not familiar with), I usually sit back and listen.
A good GUI tool (some do exist!) will tell you where to find a log, which means that you can more or less completely diagnose a problem in such an instance. Command-line editing isn’t always required.
On the other hand, the command-line is extremely powerful and effective. It’s fast, it’s easy, and it’s straight to the point. No bloat.
The issue is really quite complex. There are merits to both sides of the argument.
Comment by linuxcrayon — February 3, 2008 @ 10:42 pm
[...] The Linux community and its (future) problem I just want to drop a line about what I believe to be the future biggest problems of the Linux community: [...]
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